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welcome to the skeptic zone

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the podcast from australia for science

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and reason

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

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episode number 667

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for the 18th of july 2021

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richard saunders coming to you from

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sydney australia where the last few days

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have been

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not good it's been very cold very windy

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and very wet

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but of course more importantly the

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uh delta variation of the covert 19 is

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uh not going away anytime soon and the

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numbers are getting worse

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sadly over the last few days and the

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lockdown restrictions are tighter

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and it's eerily like

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reliving parts of 2020 all over again

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except there's a a bit more

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a bit more of a serious element to it

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not that

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last year wasn't serious because of the

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delta variation

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i guess we can keep our spirits up we

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need to get motivated to do

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lots of exercise if we can even though

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it's a cold

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winter and a lockdown winter as it's

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turning out to be

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but uh things like that to keep one's

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self active

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but speaking of the lockdown then first

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news item coming up on today's show the

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first segment talks about

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protests in the city of melbourne

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against their lockdown they've gone into

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lockdown two

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because of the delta variation yes

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people are out on the streets well we're

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out on the streets protesting

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you know the usual suspects the freedom

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fighters the

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liberty now covet is a hoax and on it

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goes

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and i recorded this segment a couple of

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days ago

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and just yesterday i noticed here in

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sydney

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uh not far from where i live there was a

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protest and some people arrested

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for the same thing anyway coming up at

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the top of the show

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news about the protests in melbourne and

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after that we speak to a couple of very

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interesting gentlemen

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my old friend leonard tremil from uh the

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bay area

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australia ian brice

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both these gentlemen are involved with

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various

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money challenges for skeptical prizes

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for proof of the paranormal and so on

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and i thought i'd chat to them both i

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had the opportunity

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and what you might find interesting is

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this slide

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the slight differences in the australian

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100 000

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uh prize and the center for inquiries

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250

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000 prize and

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in order to prepare you what would you

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think if somebody came up with proof of

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alien contact

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do you think that would qualify for the

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skeptic prize

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hmm and after that chat we have the

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latest newsletter from australian

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skeptics written and

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uh compiled by tim mendem

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what has caught the skeptical iftim this

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week then to round off the show back to

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the trove archives where we look for

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references

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in the digitized newspapers and so on

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for the word psychic

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and the word test in the same article

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well one of the positives about the

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lockdown is you get to see some pretty

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good entertainment online

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and last night i enjoyed our reporter

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maynard

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he did a live broadcast about the

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castanet club

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the famous uh group that was around in

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newcastle in the 80s and the 90s

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if you don't know anything about the

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castanet club head to

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maynard.com.edu

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download the castanet club free calendar

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and also in your diary put

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down 8 30 p.m saturday night so that's

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next saturday and that will be the 24th

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of july

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and that's australian time so 8 30 p.m

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this coming saturday here in australia

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and you can do the time conversion for

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wherever you are in the world go to

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maynard.com and watch part two

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of maynard's online live show about the

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castanet club with clips and interviews

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and

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entertainment

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just last night well now it's time for

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me to

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run downstairs and since it's winter i

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might make myself up a bowl of porridge

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not too cold not too hot but just bright

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porridge and brown sugar

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now there's a combination while i do

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that i hope you enjoy

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[Music]

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now as i said at the top of the show

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sydney and melbourne

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are now both in lockdown owing to the

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coronavirus the

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delta variational variant or strain or

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however they're saying it and i must say

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both cities are

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taking it in their stride to an extent

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to an extent they have different rules

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in each city which is a bit confusing

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i think it's more confusing in sydney

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because the rules aren't as clear

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but on thursday night just gone

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melbourne went into lockdown

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and that very night after it was

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announced in the afternoon

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protesters hit the streets now these are

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the anti-lockdown anti-mask

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freedom fighters liberty now kova is a

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hoax et cetera et cetera protesters

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and it truly brings home to

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me and i'm sure it does to you too that

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these people simply don't understand

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this is the delta variation this is the

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delta variant this is a different game

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this is truly highly infectious

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people are becoming infected after very

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casual contacts

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and the numbers are growing

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and on friday morning this appeared in

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news.com.eu website written by matt

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young and

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it says in part anti-lockdown protesters

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storm melbourne hours after daniel

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andrews announcement

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daniel andrews being the premier of

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victoria

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the man who calls the shots in that

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state

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melbourne has been plunged into chaos

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just hours after the state ended its

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fifth lockdown

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as hundreds of protesters took to the

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streets

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and incidentally um

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i will i will link to this of course

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this this page

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which has lots of photographs of the

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protests and

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videos and it's so stark

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that the police on the scene

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are all wearing masks and the protesters

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are not and it goes on to say there was

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chaos

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in the streets of melbourne overnight

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just hours after the city

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entered its fifth lockdown as angry

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protesters marched through the cbd

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and cbd stands for central

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business district for those people in

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other countries who don't use that term

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so it's downtown in other words

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demonstrators called for an end to the

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restrictions just hours after victorian

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premier daniel andrews announced the

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state would enter

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a five-day snap lockdown from midnight

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we've got to do this

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otherwise it'll get away from us and we

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as more than any other part of our

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nation know

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we don't want this thing getting away

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from us and being locked down for months

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mr andrews said we want to deal with

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this with a short

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sharp lockdown decisive action not

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waiting

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not dawdling now is the time later on

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it says maskless protesters display

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their anger

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protesters filled melbourne's cbd from

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around 7pm

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to oppose the snap lockdown in a city

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that has seen its fair share of covered

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restrictions

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signs read i have a choice and

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lockdown kills with many demonstrators

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not wearing face masks

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and it goes on to say they were chanting

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freedom

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and to give you a taste of what it was

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like

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[Applause]

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it also mentions an actress from the tv

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show

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neighbors popular here in australia and

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in the uk especially

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actress nicola charles known for her

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role as samantha beaumont

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in tv show neighbors also hailed the

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protests

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one protester on social media described

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lockdowns as

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human rights abuses and called for a

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great turnout

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bragging that there were a couple of

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thousand people here

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claiming that they were just regular

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everyday people who have had enough

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and it goes on later to say victoria

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police told news.com

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no arrests or fines were issued a flare

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that was lit during the protests was

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still being investigated with police

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saying

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they were yet to identify the person

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responsible for lighting it

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protesters gave speeches then marched to

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parliament

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so yes that's uh an interesting story

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worth a look especially when you can see

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all the photographs of the protesters

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and

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some video footage as well well this

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brings home to all of us i think the

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importance

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of finding these conspiracy theories

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when we see

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hundreds probably hundreds of people

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marching in melbourne last night not

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wearing masks

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crying freedom and human rights abuse

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and end the lockdown and covet is a myth

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and and all the rest of it and i

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seriously

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to suffer the effects of the delta

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variation although it must be said of

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all the people in our community

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likely more likely to get infected it's

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the people who don't believe that there

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is an infection out there in the first

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place

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and it crosses my mind that some of the

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more important work the

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skeptical community and associated

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friends are doing these days

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is to fight conspiracy theories because

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at the heart of all this i think is

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conspiratorial thinking

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i mean we still like to cover the

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classics the classics the ufos the

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paranormal the ghosties

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uh spoon bending all that sort of stuff

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but um

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when we get serious about it fighting

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misinformation

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especially in this day and age with a

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deadly virus sweeping the world

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i think what we do is frankly more

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important than ever

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i will link to that story in this week's

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[Music]

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hi i'm ben radford co-host of squaring

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00:11:26,870 --> 00:11:24,320
strange podcast

289
00:11:28,470 --> 00:11:26,880
in these trying times as we help each

290
00:11:30,310 --> 00:11:28,480
other out to hold on to hope

291
00:11:32,949 --> 00:11:30,320
we want you to know that we're here for

292
00:11:34,310 --> 00:11:32,959
you hey hey what are you going on about

293
00:11:36,230 --> 00:11:34,320
who's interrupting my heartfelt

294
00:11:39,430 --> 00:11:36,240
promotional copy it's me

295
00:11:42,389 --> 00:11:39,440
celestia ward your co-host

296
00:11:43,910 --> 00:11:42,399
really in these trying times that's the

297
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best you can do

298
00:11:47,269 --> 00:11:45,360
well i'm just doing what everyone else

299
00:11:50,710 --> 00:11:47,279
is doing i thought

300
00:11:51,910 --> 00:11:50,720
that's not what we do oh for crying out

301
00:11:55,110 --> 00:11:51,920
loud who else is here

302
00:11:58,230 --> 00:11:55,120
pasqua romero your other co-host

303
00:11:58,710 --> 00:11:58,240
hey we don't do what everybody else does

304
00:12:00,310 --> 00:11:58,720
ben

305
00:12:02,870 --> 00:12:00,320
that's kind of our thing at squaring the

306
00:12:04,629 --> 00:12:02,880
strange yeah we try to approach things a

307
00:12:07,829 --> 00:12:04,639
little differently than your standard

308
00:12:08,310 --> 00:12:07,839
skeptical talky talk show we do our own

309
00:12:10,150 --> 00:12:08,320
thing

310
00:12:11,670 --> 00:12:10,160
bringing science critical thinking and

311
00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:11,680
skepticism to bear

312
00:12:15,269 --> 00:12:13,760
on issues of the day we've got a

313
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professional skeptical author

314
00:12:19,030 --> 00:12:17,680
ben who has decades of experience

315
00:12:21,030 --> 00:12:19,040
researching topics

316
00:12:23,509 --> 00:12:21,040
for a dozen books and thousands of

317
00:12:25,110 --> 00:12:23,519
articles and a cartoonist skeptic

318
00:12:26,710 --> 00:12:25,120
celestia who knows her stuff when it

319
00:12:28,389 --> 00:12:26,720
comes to facial weirdness and the

320
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psychology of perception

321
00:12:32,389 --> 00:12:30,880
and a badass heavy metal rock star and

322
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tech engineer pascual

323
00:12:36,389 --> 00:12:34,480
who brings knowledge of all things audio

324
00:12:38,550 --> 00:12:36,399
plus a bunch of neck tattoos

325
00:12:40,470 --> 00:12:38,560
scoring the strange explores topics both

326
00:12:41,670 --> 00:12:40,480
mysterious and mundane through a

327
00:12:45,110 --> 00:12:41,680
critical lens

328
00:12:47,509 --> 00:12:45,120
monsters panics media literacy

329
00:12:48,230 --> 00:12:47,519
okay forget the whole trying times promo

330
00:12:50,470 --> 00:12:48,240
idea

331
00:12:51,350 --> 00:12:50,480
but we have chupacabras and clown panics

332
00:12:53,860 --> 00:12:51,360
right

333
00:12:53,870 --> 00:13:05,269
[Music]

334
00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:07,190
i'm the story of my life your story the

335
00:13:11,590 --> 00:13:09,760
magic of editing the magic of editing

336
00:13:13,829 --> 00:13:11,600
it's leonard tremell it's adrian hill

337
00:13:15,269 --> 00:13:13,839
and ian bryce here in australia

338
00:13:17,110 --> 00:13:15,279
they're joining me this week on the

339
00:13:17,350 --> 00:13:17,120
great australian prediction project but

340
00:13:21,030 --> 00:13:17,360
i

341
00:13:23,750 --> 00:13:21,040
because

342
00:13:24,310 --> 00:13:23,760
leonard and ian are two kindred spirits

343
00:13:26,550 --> 00:13:24,320
because

344
00:13:27,430 --> 00:13:26,560
both gentlemen are involved in the

345
00:13:29,750 --> 00:13:27,440
skeptical

346
00:13:30,949 --> 00:13:29,760
prizes from around the world leonard you

347
00:13:32,310 --> 00:13:30,959
were telling me that you

348
00:13:34,470 --> 00:13:32,320
are involved with the center for

349
00:13:38,870 --> 00:13:34,480
inquiries 250

350
00:13:42,629 --> 00:13:38,880
000 prize for what exactly

351
00:13:45,590 --> 00:13:42,639
or any paranormal or

352
00:13:48,470 --> 00:13:45,600
uh extraordinary ability that a person

353
00:13:52,069 --> 00:13:48,480
has that can be

354
00:13:54,550 --> 00:13:52,079
shown to exist under proper scientific

355
00:13:56,150 --> 00:13:54,560
observation exactly right and ian bryce

356
00:13:58,150 --> 00:13:56,160
from the australian skeptics you are the

357
00:13:59,110 --> 00:13:58,160
long time challenge coordinator in this

358
00:14:01,110 --> 00:13:59,120
country and

359
00:14:02,710 --> 00:14:01,120
oh it's only a hundred thousand dollars

360
00:14:03,509 --> 00:14:02,720
but i wouldn't mind having that and i

361
00:14:06,389 --> 00:14:03,519
guess

362
00:14:07,350 --> 00:14:06,399
we look at more or less the same sort of

363
00:14:09,269 --> 00:14:07,360
thing again

364
00:14:11,189 --> 00:14:09,279
yes indeed it started off as being for

365
00:14:13,110 --> 00:14:11,199
the paranormal

366
00:14:15,670 --> 00:14:13,120
but of course these days it's broadened

367
00:14:16,069 --> 00:14:15,680
into medical and scientific claims as

368
00:14:18,790 --> 00:14:16,079
well

369
00:14:20,790 --> 00:14:18,800
and my own specialty is in claims

370
00:14:21,670 --> 00:14:20,800
relating to physics such as energy

371
00:14:24,470 --> 00:14:21,680
storage

372
00:14:26,470 --> 00:14:24,480
and energy production is a major one now

373
00:14:28,389 --> 00:14:26,480
right and and you've investigated since

374
00:14:30,949 --> 00:14:28,399
i've known you over 20 years

375
00:14:32,069 --> 00:14:30,959
many claims of free energy and zero

376
00:14:33,990 --> 00:14:32,079
point energy or

377
00:14:35,829 --> 00:14:34,000
what's what's the term i'm looking for

378
00:14:38,710 --> 00:14:35,839
um

379
00:14:40,389 --> 00:14:38,720
confusion eternal energy no no quick

380
00:14:42,629 --> 00:14:40,399
somebody help me

381
00:14:44,069 --> 00:14:42,639
perpetual emotional thank you adrian

382
00:14:45,670 --> 00:14:44,079
hill perpetual motion

383
00:14:48,310 --> 00:14:45,680
i just couldn't think of the term

384
00:14:50,310 --> 00:14:48,320
leonard would you at cfi would you

385
00:14:52,230 --> 00:14:50,320
consider claims if somebody came up and

386
00:14:53,990 --> 00:14:52,240
said they've invented a perpetual motion

387
00:14:55,750 --> 00:14:54,000
or a free energy device would that fall

388
00:14:58,870 --> 00:14:55,760
into your categories

389
00:15:02,230 --> 00:14:58,880
in most cases we are looking

390
00:15:05,829 --> 00:15:02,240
for an ability of a person right

391
00:15:08,550 --> 00:15:05,839
not a device that they construct

392
00:15:10,230 --> 00:15:08,560
well eventually not that's interesting

393
00:15:12,150 --> 00:15:10,240
so even though this device

394
00:15:14,230 --> 00:15:12,160
a free energy device contradicts the

395
00:15:17,430 --> 00:15:14,240
laws of physics it's something that you

396
00:15:20,870 --> 00:15:17,440
you'd probably pass on if

397
00:15:21,750 --> 00:15:20,880
it we we have some uh we have some

398
00:15:27,189 --> 00:15:21,760
leeway

399
00:15:30,710 --> 00:15:29,590
supernatural abilities right right

400
00:15:33,269 --> 00:15:30,720
that's interesting

401
00:15:34,550 --> 00:15:33,279
and where where where would both you

402
00:15:37,110 --> 00:15:34,560
gentlemen place

403
00:15:38,310 --> 00:15:37,120
claims of aliens and ufos and things

404
00:15:41,509 --> 00:15:38,320
like that

405
00:15:43,350 --> 00:15:41,519
ian yes um i rich

406
00:15:44,870 --> 00:15:43,360
i think richard you've handled most of

407
00:15:46,550 --> 00:15:44,880
the alien

408
00:15:47,990 --> 00:15:46,560
and ufo claims there's some very

409
00:15:49,670 --> 00:15:48,000
interesting ones aren't there

410
00:15:51,670 --> 00:15:49,680
some of you might have heard of the ufo

411
00:15:53,670 --> 00:15:51,680
alien abduction from

412
00:15:55,350 --> 00:15:53,680
when was that 30 odd years ago that was

413
00:15:58,710 --> 00:15:55,360
one of the most australian

414
00:16:00,710 --> 00:15:58,720
famous australian cases yeah but would

415
00:16:02,629 --> 00:16:00,720
what i'm saying is would if somebody

416
00:16:05,269 --> 00:16:02,639
came along to us

417
00:16:07,670 --> 00:16:05,279
and said i can prove that aliens exist

418
00:16:11,590 --> 00:16:07,680
or ufos exist does that fall within

419
00:16:13,910 --> 00:16:11,600
our prize money yes well that's

420
00:16:15,189 --> 00:16:13,920
that's a good question because it

421
00:16:17,110 --> 00:16:15,199
doesn't

422
00:16:18,949 --> 00:16:17,120
it wouldn't break any laws of physics in

423
00:16:20,470 --> 00:16:18,959
fact i think most of us

424
00:16:22,069 --> 00:16:20,480
most scientists would agree it's quite

425
00:16:24,150 --> 00:16:22,079
likely there are aliens out there that

426
00:16:27,430 --> 00:16:24,160
we haven't made contact with yet

427
00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:27,440
so but my own understanding is that

428
00:16:31,030 --> 00:16:29,440
anything new to science would qualify

429
00:16:32,949 --> 00:16:31,040
for consideration

430
00:16:34,470 --> 00:16:32,959
because i'd hate to turn down if someone

431
00:16:37,110 --> 00:16:34,480
came to us with

432
00:16:38,470 --> 00:16:37,120
offering an introduction to an alien i

433
00:16:41,350 --> 00:16:38,480
hate to think that australian

434
00:16:43,990 --> 00:16:41,360
skeptics turned down the opportunity for

435
00:16:47,509 --> 00:16:44,000
such publicity and and good will

436
00:16:49,990 --> 00:16:47,519
so i'd extend to anything new just

437
00:16:50,870 --> 00:16:50,000
that's interesting that's interesting um

438
00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:50,880
and and

439
00:16:55,749 --> 00:16:54,240
leonard what would your take be on if

440
00:16:57,670 --> 00:16:55,759
i guess someone would have to come to

441
00:17:00,870 --> 00:16:57,680
you and the claim would be they could

442
00:17:03,030 --> 00:17:00,880
make telepathic contact with aliens

443
00:17:04,230 --> 00:17:03,040
yeah it would have to be some ability

444
00:17:07,829 --> 00:17:04,240
that they have

445
00:17:09,510 --> 00:17:07,839
as opposed to just something that exists

446
00:17:11,029 --> 00:17:09,520
well in this country at the moment where

447
00:17:13,189 --> 00:17:11,039
it's a little difficult especially in

448
00:17:16,549 --> 00:17:13,199
sydney for us to conduct and it has been

449
00:17:19,270 --> 00:17:16,559
over the last since 2020 to conduct

450
00:17:19,750 --> 00:17:19,280
normal uh tests and so on and so forth

451
00:17:21,510 --> 00:17:19,760
uh

452
00:17:22,870 --> 00:17:21,520
what's what's your situation leonard are

453
00:17:26,470 --> 00:17:22,880
you involved in many

454
00:17:28,549 --> 00:17:26,480
claims for the the cash prize um

455
00:17:29,750 --> 00:17:28,559
not i'm not one of the more active

456
00:17:33,190 --> 00:17:29,760
investigators but i

457
00:17:36,470 --> 00:17:33,200
have uh coordinated some of the uh

458
00:17:39,270 --> 00:17:36,480
of the claimants um

459
00:17:40,070 --> 00:17:39,280
the first one that i got really involved

460
00:17:42,150 --> 00:17:40,080
with

461
00:17:43,830 --> 00:17:42,160
uh was someone who claimed that he could

462
00:17:46,549 --> 00:17:43,840
douse for gold

463
00:17:48,950 --> 00:17:46,559
take a pendulum yeah and detect whether

464
00:17:51,990 --> 00:17:48,960
or not there was a gold thing nearby

465
00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:52,000
after painstaking

466
00:17:59,990 --> 00:17:56,640
analysis and thinking of every possible

467
00:18:03,190 --> 00:18:00,000
way of handling this we constructed

468
00:18:06,230 --> 00:18:03,200
a protocol and he tried it

469
00:18:09,830 --> 00:18:06,240
and he said oh i can't do it sorry

470
00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:09,840
which we call to win well that that

471
00:18:13,110 --> 00:18:11,600
that's the story we've heard many times

472
00:18:16,070 --> 00:18:13,120
ian bryce where people come to

473
00:18:16,789 --> 00:18:16,080
to be tested and somehow their magic

474
00:18:19,270 --> 00:18:16,799
pals

475
00:18:20,390 --> 00:18:19,280
magical powers elude them that's right

476
00:18:21,830 --> 00:18:20,400
well

477
00:18:24,870 --> 00:18:21,840
of course that many of them claim that

478
00:18:27,590 --> 00:18:24,880
skeptics put out negative vibrations

479
00:18:28,789 --> 00:18:27,600
which cancel it all out so perhaps

480
00:18:30,630 --> 00:18:28,799
there's some truth to that

481
00:18:32,070 --> 00:18:30,640
but i have here a little device which is

482
00:18:35,270 --> 00:18:32,080
perhaps one of the most

483
00:18:37,190 --> 00:18:35,280
mystifying this is a little pendulum

484
00:18:39,270 --> 00:18:37,200
and richard and i went and visited the

485
00:18:40,630 --> 00:18:39,280
gentleman in the stellen highlands many

486
00:18:43,590 --> 00:18:40,640
years ago

487
00:18:44,310 --> 00:18:43,600
yes i do remember what ian is holding up

488
00:18:47,430 --> 00:18:44,320
incidentally

489
00:18:48,870 --> 00:18:47,440
is a metal pyramid and

490
00:18:50,549 --> 00:18:48,880
from the center at the top of the

491
00:18:52,230 --> 00:18:50,559
pyramid is dangling a

492
00:18:54,310 --> 00:18:52,240
second rock which looks like a little

493
00:18:57,190 --> 00:18:54,320
pyramid indeed a pyramid within a

494
00:19:00,630 --> 00:18:57,200
pyramid so we where could that go wrong

495
00:19:02,470 --> 00:19:00,640
anyway the chap had a theory of physics

496
00:19:03,190 --> 00:19:02,480
i knew his own theory of physics to back

497
00:19:05,430 --> 00:19:03,200
it all up

498
00:19:07,990 --> 00:19:05,440
and then he showed us a demonstration

499
00:19:09,510 --> 00:19:08,000
and he sat one of these on the floor

500
00:19:11,110 --> 00:19:09,520
and it sat there and for half an hour

501
00:19:12,390 --> 00:19:11,120
the little pendulum wobbled back and

502
00:19:14,230 --> 00:19:12,400
forth

503
00:19:16,150 --> 00:19:14,240
with no wind currents and no one moving

504
00:19:19,510 --> 00:19:16,160
it you remember that and it was very

505
00:19:20,710 --> 00:19:19,520
yeah justifying did you did you get to

506
00:19:21,830 --> 00:19:20,720
the bottom you said you're free to

507
00:19:23,750 --> 00:19:21,840
search the house

508
00:19:25,750 --> 00:19:23,760
everyone suspects that i've got some

509
00:19:27,350 --> 00:19:25,760
vibratory machine in the house which is

510
00:19:28,390 --> 00:19:27,360
doing it but you're free to search the

511
00:19:30,870 --> 00:19:28,400
house

512
00:19:32,470 --> 00:19:30,880
so we did and didn't find anything and

513
00:19:33,830 --> 00:19:32,480
he said it works in the garden too there

514
00:19:35,590 --> 00:19:33,840
are some rocks in the garden that it

515
00:19:38,230 --> 00:19:35,600
works on and some it doesn't so we found

516
00:19:39,909 --> 00:19:38,240
one outside where it's up there and

517
00:19:41,669 --> 00:19:39,919
it's wrong for 20 minutes and other

518
00:19:45,750 --> 00:19:41,679
other places where it wouldn't

519
00:19:48,950 --> 00:19:45,760
so that that was never resolved

520
00:19:49,590 --> 00:19:48,960
you can't have one of these so he gave

521
00:19:55,270 --> 00:19:49,600
me

522
00:19:56,150 --> 00:19:55,280
it switched back and forth regularly or

523
00:19:58,630 --> 00:19:56,160
frequently

524
00:20:00,789 --> 00:19:58,640
but my house is very old and fragile and

525
00:20:02,390 --> 00:20:00,799
moves in the wind i can feel it moving

526
00:20:06,149 --> 00:20:02,400
so that's

527
00:20:08,310 --> 00:20:06,159
no mystery here

528
00:20:11,350 --> 00:20:08,320
but he never followed us up he never

529
00:20:14,070 --> 00:20:11,360
demanded the money and we never resolved

530
00:20:15,190 --> 00:20:14,080
so that's that's the one sold regarding

531
00:20:16,390 --> 00:20:15,200
australian skeptics hundred thousand

532
00:20:17,990 --> 00:20:16,400
dollar challenge

533
00:20:19,830 --> 00:20:18,000
okay that's really interesting well

534
00:20:21,430 --> 00:20:19,840
thanks for this brief chat it's great to

535
00:20:22,310 --> 00:20:21,440
have these little side chats when we're

536
00:20:25,430 --> 00:20:22,320
doing the project

537
00:20:27,029 --> 00:20:25,440
because um uh i i find

538
00:20:28,390 --> 00:20:27,039
the the whole idea of the challenge

539
00:20:29,590 --> 00:20:28,400
quite fascinating being involved with

540
00:20:31,029 --> 00:20:29,600
the australian skeptics

541
00:20:32,870 --> 00:20:31,039
hundred thousand dollars and the james

542
00:20:34,630 --> 00:20:32,880
randy one million dollars

543
00:20:36,549 --> 00:20:34,640
and uh well let's just hope somebody can

544
00:20:39,990 --> 00:20:36,559
come along and make telepathic contact

545
00:20:43,110 --> 00:20:40,000
with aliens and their pyramids

546
00:20:46,149 --> 00:20:43,120
as one of the people that's uh involved

547
00:20:49,830 --> 00:20:46,159
in the challenge here says

548
00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:49,840
frequently i really want this to be true

549
00:20:53,990 --> 00:20:52,080
because i want a nobel prize that's

550
00:20:56,549 --> 00:20:54,000
that's the argument isn't it

551
00:20:58,549 --> 00:20:56,559
we'd all do very well out of it well

552
00:21:00,390 --> 00:20:58,559
leonard and ian

553
00:21:02,310 --> 00:21:00,400
keep it up it's it's fascinating work

554
00:21:04,470 --> 00:21:02,320
and thank you for this little chat

555
00:21:17,110 --> 00:21:04,480
this is so much thanks leonard and

556
00:21:19,350 --> 00:21:17,120
adrian and richard

557
00:21:20,950 --> 00:21:19,360
hello this is maynard did you know that

558
00:21:21,590 --> 00:21:20,960
you could listen to the skeptic zone on

559
00:21:29,029 --> 00:21:21,600
youtube

560
00:21:32,950 --> 00:21:31,590
also you can hear 40 logical fallacies

561
00:21:34,789 --> 00:21:32,960
with michelle bickersma

562
00:21:38,630 --> 00:21:34,799
and funny sketches with richard saunders

563
00:21:49,530 --> 00:21:40,310
just click on the youtube links on the

564
00:21:49,540 --> 00:22:07,830
[Music]

565
00:22:13,590 --> 00:22:10,310
let's look at the australian skeptics

566
00:22:16,870 --> 00:22:13,600
newsletter newsletter number 127

567
00:22:19,990 --> 00:22:16,880
for the 12th of july 2021

568
00:22:23,830 --> 00:22:20,000
and written and compiled by tim bendum

569
00:22:26,070 --> 00:22:23,840
hi all it says not a great deal going on

570
00:22:26,950 --> 00:22:26,080
except for your opportunity to register

571
00:22:29,310 --> 00:22:26,960
for the

572
00:22:31,190 --> 00:22:29,320
here and there and everywhere

573
00:22:33,510 --> 00:22:31,200
skepticon2021

574
00:22:34,630 --> 00:22:33,520
and more about football than there is

575
00:22:36,710 --> 00:22:34,640
about covert

576
00:22:41,510 --> 00:22:36,720
which makes for a pleasant change read

577
00:22:44,510 --> 00:22:41,520
on time

578
00:22:46,710 --> 00:22:44,520
skepticon register your interest now

579
00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:46,720
registrations of interest are now open

580
00:22:49,909 --> 00:22:48,960
for skeptic on the 2021 australian

581
00:22:51,909 --> 00:22:49,919
skeptics

582
00:22:53,110 --> 00:22:51,919
annual national convention which this

583
00:22:56,710 --> 00:22:53,120
year will be held

584
00:22:58,310 --> 00:22:56,720
on november 20 to the 21st

585
00:22:59,990 --> 00:22:58,320
it will be a joint event held by

586
00:23:02,070 --> 00:23:00,000
australian skeptics here in sydney and

587
00:23:03,270 --> 00:23:02,080
new zealand skeptics in wellington new

588
00:23:05,270 --> 00:23:03,280
zealand

589
00:23:07,510 --> 00:23:05,280
with face-to-face and online

590
00:23:10,870 --> 00:23:07,520
participation available

591
00:23:12,950 --> 00:23:10,880
the caveat is covered willing and this

592
00:23:15,350 --> 00:23:12,960
is an important point to make that

593
00:23:16,070 --> 00:23:15,360
we here in australia especially are

594
00:23:19,430 --> 00:23:16,080
planning

595
00:23:21,430 --> 00:23:19,440
for all contingencies so we hope to have

596
00:23:24,630 --> 00:23:21,440
some face-to-face and online

597
00:23:26,789 --> 00:23:24,640
but uh covert might dictate that it goes

598
00:23:28,870 --> 00:23:26,799
completely online we don't know yet

599
00:23:30,310 --> 00:23:28,880
anyway you can keep up to date

600
00:23:32,070 --> 00:23:30,320
details of the speakers and ticket

601
00:23:33,990 --> 00:23:32,080
prices will be available soon

602
00:23:37,830 --> 00:23:34,000
but in the meantime please register your

603
00:23:39,990 --> 00:23:37,840
interest at skepticon

604
00:23:41,110 --> 00:23:40,000
so you can receive the latest info the

605
00:23:44,390 --> 00:23:41,120
next item says

606
00:23:46,470 --> 00:23:44,400
flawed study cited by anti-faxes

607
00:23:48,789 --> 00:23:46,480
a study that erroneously claimed that

608
00:23:51,830 --> 00:23:48,799
the covert 19 vaccination causes two

609
00:23:53,990 --> 00:23:51,840
deaths for every three lives it saves

610
00:23:55,430 --> 00:23:54,000
has been retracted from the journal

611
00:23:58,549 --> 00:23:55,440
vaccines

612
00:24:02,310 --> 00:23:58,559
after researchers and editors found a

613
00:24:04,870 --> 00:24:02,320
drastic quote misrepresentation of data

614
00:24:05,510 --> 00:24:04,880
end quote the main argument of the study

615
00:24:08,070 --> 00:24:05,520
was that

616
00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:08,080
quote this lack of clear benefit should

617
00:24:12,070 --> 00:24:09,760
cause governments to rethink their

618
00:24:13,669 --> 00:24:12,080
vaccination policy end quote

619
00:24:15,750 --> 00:24:13,679
the paper was quickly used by

620
00:24:17,350 --> 00:24:15,760
anti-vaxxers as evidence that the

621
00:24:20,470 --> 00:24:17,360
vaccines are not safe

622
00:24:23,830 --> 00:24:20,480
facebook flagged the video as containing

623
00:24:27,269 --> 00:24:23,840
quote partly false information end quote

624
00:24:28,710 --> 00:24:27,279
but it has since been viewed over 250

625
00:24:31,630 --> 00:24:28,720
000 times

626
00:24:34,230 --> 00:24:31,640
the study has also been tweeted by

627
00:24:34,549 --> 00:24:34,240
anti-vaccination activists with hundreds

628
00:24:38,070 --> 00:24:34,559
of

629
00:24:42,070 --> 00:24:40,390
benjamin franklin's fight against

630
00:24:44,549 --> 00:24:42,080
smallpox

631
00:24:45,110 --> 00:24:44,559
and when you thought anti-vaxxers were

632
00:24:48,710 --> 00:24:45,120
bad in

633
00:24:49,909 --> 00:24:48,720
2021 interesting historical piece on

634
00:24:52,230 --> 00:24:49,919
varialation

635
00:24:54,710 --> 00:24:52,240
a treatment for smallpox used before

636
00:24:58,830 --> 00:24:54,720
jenna's discovery of using cowpox

637
00:25:00,230 --> 00:24:58,840
and promoted by ben and his big brother

638
00:25:02,470 --> 00:25:00,240
jimmy

639
00:25:04,789 --> 00:25:02,480
and incidentally benjamin franklin

640
00:25:08,710 --> 00:25:04,799
sometimes wrote under the pen name of

641
00:25:13,430 --> 00:25:11,350
malaysia's influences cash in on health

642
00:25:16,789 --> 00:25:13,440
and beauty pseudoscience

643
00:25:17,909 --> 00:25:16,799
dubious health claims such as a banana

644
00:25:20,549 --> 00:25:17,919
milk

645
00:25:22,070 --> 00:25:20,559
that it is claimed could regulate

646
00:25:23,990 --> 00:25:22,080
insulin production

647
00:25:26,549 --> 00:25:24,000
and a string of incidents involving

648
00:25:28,549 --> 00:25:26,559
adulterants have led to observers

649
00:25:31,269 --> 00:25:28,559
calling for greater

650
00:25:32,230 --> 00:25:31,279
due diligence as regulators strained to

651
00:25:34,390 --> 00:25:32,240
keep up

652
00:25:36,070 --> 00:25:34,400
malaysia's national pharmaceutical

653
00:25:39,029 --> 00:25:36,080
regulation agency

654
00:25:40,149 --> 00:25:39,039
listed no fewer than 171 health and

655
00:25:43,269 --> 00:25:40,159
beauty products

656
00:25:44,310 --> 00:25:43,279
that it had found contained banned

657
00:25:46,149 --> 00:25:44,320
ingredients

658
00:25:47,830 --> 00:25:46,159
including poisonous mercury and

659
00:25:50,230 --> 00:25:47,840
tretinoin

660
00:25:51,190 --> 00:25:50,240
an acne and leukemia medication that

661
00:25:53,430 --> 00:25:51,200
carries a wide

662
00:25:55,430 --> 00:25:53,440
range of side effects from skin

663
00:25:58,470 --> 00:25:55,440
irritation and hair loss

664
00:26:01,830 --> 00:25:58,480
to birth defects in unborn children

665
00:26:04,950 --> 00:26:01,840
if used while pregnant and

666
00:26:07,990 --> 00:26:04,960
i have never seen that word before t r

667
00:26:13,190 --> 00:26:08,000
e t i n

668
00:26:16,789 --> 00:26:13,200
o i n tret anoin i think it's pronounced

669
00:26:19,430 --> 00:26:16,799
ancient skepticism for modern problems

670
00:26:21,269 --> 00:26:19,440
when an opinion is formed our minds will

671
00:26:24,149 --> 00:26:21,279
work to defend it

672
00:26:25,830 --> 00:26:24,159
against country notions arguments and

673
00:26:27,870 --> 00:26:25,840
reality itself

674
00:26:29,510 --> 00:26:27,880
this looks at the application of

675
00:26:32,630 --> 00:26:29,520
epicureanism

676
00:26:34,870 --> 00:26:32,640
and stoicism in modern day situations

677
00:26:35,830 --> 00:26:34,880
and its reference to athenian corridors

678
00:26:38,470 --> 00:26:35,840
athletes and

679
00:26:39,990 --> 00:26:38,480
gods in the september issue of the

680
00:26:42,230 --> 00:26:40,000
skeptic

681
00:26:44,549 --> 00:26:42,240
and of course to remind you each of

682
00:26:47,590 --> 00:26:44,559
these news items comes with a link

683
00:26:49,510 --> 00:26:47,600
you can click to read more the

684
00:26:52,149 --> 00:26:49,520
newsletter also talks about upcoming

685
00:26:52,630 --> 00:26:52,159
events in adelaide victoria gold coast

686
00:26:56,149 --> 00:26:52,640
perth

687
00:26:57,510 --> 00:26:56,159
canberra and sydney including sydney

688
00:26:59,669 --> 00:26:57,520
skeptics in the pub which

689
00:27:02,470 --> 00:26:59,679
next month will be online because of

690
00:27:06,470 --> 00:27:02,480
covert with our special guest speaker

691
00:27:09,669 --> 00:27:06,480
professor paul willis skeptics in

692
00:27:11,350 --> 00:27:09,679
action if you have any ideas for stories

693
00:27:13,510 --> 00:27:11,360
or want to contribute to skeptics

694
00:27:16,310 --> 00:27:13,520
communications such as the magazine or

695
00:27:17,590 --> 00:27:16,320
facebook page or just have something you

696
00:27:19,909 --> 00:27:17,600
want to get off your chest

697
00:27:21,590 --> 00:27:19,919
then you're welcome to get in touch and

698
00:27:22,470 --> 00:27:21,600
you can write to the australian skeptics

699
00:27:25,990 --> 00:27:22,480
with your news

700
00:27:27,909 --> 00:27:26,000
tips news tips at skeptics.com.edu

701
00:27:29,430 --> 00:27:27,919
or submissions to the magazines should

702
00:27:32,710 --> 00:27:29,440
go to editor

703
00:27:35,830 --> 00:27:32,720
at skeptics.com

704
00:27:37,990 --> 00:27:35,840
items of interest further to last

705
00:27:39,430 --> 00:27:38,000
newsletter story on animals picking the

706
00:27:42,230 --> 00:27:39,440
euro results

707
00:27:43,110 --> 00:27:42,240
come some more examples of furry and

708
00:27:46,789 --> 00:27:43,120
feathered and

709
00:27:49,350 --> 00:27:46,799
finned football fanatics a caveat

710
00:27:50,230 --> 00:27:49,360
we haven't been able to find predictions

711
00:27:53,750 --> 00:27:50,240
by all these

712
00:27:57,110 --> 00:27:53,760
for the final game spoiler alert

713
00:28:00,149 --> 00:27:57,120
and few if any ever give

714
00:28:03,029 --> 00:28:00,159
the actual scores but here we have

715
00:28:04,149 --> 00:28:03,039
cheo john the psychic chimp from

716
00:28:05,990 --> 00:28:04,159
thailand

717
00:28:07,669 --> 00:28:06,000
who successfully predicted england's

718
00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:07,679
victory over ukraine

719
00:28:11,590 --> 00:28:09,760
but were unable to find any prediction

720
00:28:14,630 --> 00:28:11,600
for the recent final

721
00:28:14,950 --> 00:28:14,640
eva the psychic parrot also predicted

722
00:28:19,669 --> 00:28:14,960
the

723
00:28:22,149 --> 00:28:19,679
cockapoo

724
00:28:23,430 --> 00:28:22,159
again the england ukraine winner

725
00:28:27,269 --> 00:28:23,440
beatrice the

726
00:28:27,590 --> 00:28:27,279
rescue cat from the rspca santa chose

727
00:28:30,870 --> 00:28:27,600
the

728
00:28:34,149 --> 00:28:30,880
england ukraine result

729
00:28:37,430 --> 00:28:34,159
jessica the psychic chicken predicted

730
00:28:39,669 --> 00:28:37,440
england's win over denmark various

731
00:28:41,029 --> 00:28:39,679
meerkats named after characters in

732
00:28:44,310 --> 00:28:41,039
friends

733
00:28:46,549 --> 00:28:44,320
predicted england to win the final

734
00:28:48,470 --> 00:28:46,559
wrong of course corby the psychic

735
00:28:48,950 --> 00:28:48,480
tortoise predicted an england win in the

736
00:28:53,269 --> 00:28:48,960
final

737
00:28:56,789 --> 00:28:53,279
wrong r2d2 the psychic sausage dog

738
00:29:00,310 --> 00:28:56,799
was likewise wrong and

739
00:29:03,669 --> 00:29:00,320
banana the seal went down the same drain

740
00:29:05,430 --> 00:29:03,679
wrong not known is how many italian

741
00:29:07,750 --> 00:29:05,440
animals voted and sadly

742
00:29:09,269 --> 00:29:07,760
there don't seem to be any psychic

743
00:29:11,029 --> 00:29:09,279
koalas yet

744
00:29:12,789 --> 00:29:11,039
probably fast asleep and stoned on

745
00:29:14,789 --> 00:29:12,799
eucalyptus oil

746
00:29:16,230 --> 00:29:14,799
susie the pig who had a pretty good

747
00:29:19,430 --> 00:29:16,240
record until the final

748
00:29:21,909 --> 00:29:19,440
failed like all the others stepping

749
00:29:24,830 --> 00:29:21,919
outside of the animal realm for a moment

750
00:29:25,990 --> 00:29:24,840
there were high hopes for a psychic

751
00:29:29,430 --> 00:29:26,000
banana

752
00:29:31,590 --> 00:29:29,440
but they got it wrong as well

753
00:29:33,590 --> 00:29:31,600
tim where do you get these things from

754
00:29:37,269 --> 00:29:33,600
and in the human arena

755
00:29:39,669 --> 00:29:37,279
a psychic bum reader passed her verdict

756
00:29:41,269 --> 00:29:39,679
on the england team ahead of the euro

757
00:29:44,710 --> 00:29:41,279
2020 final

758
00:29:47,910 --> 00:29:44,720
convinced that three lions have a

759
00:29:49,029 --> 00:29:47,920
quote really good chance

760
00:29:52,389 --> 00:29:49,039
[Music]

761
00:29:56,070 --> 00:29:52,399
end quote of beating italy

762
00:29:58,470 --> 00:29:56,080
that was an obvious bum steer

763
00:30:00,310 --> 00:29:58,480
yuri geller put his mind to the task of

764
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:00,320
an england win

765
00:30:05,990 --> 00:30:02,730
and failed

766
00:30:07,350 --> 00:30:06,000
[Music]

767
00:30:09,269 --> 00:30:07,360
and there's more to read in this

768
00:30:10,230 --> 00:30:09,279
newsletter but finally we get to movie

769
00:30:13,190 --> 00:30:10,240
of the week

770
00:30:14,710 --> 00:30:13,200
or whenever it comes out ghosts of bally

771
00:30:17,029 --> 00:30:14,720
rectory

772
00:30:18,070 --> 00:30:17,039
story of england's most haunted house

773
00:30:21,990 --> 00:30:18,080
looks exciting

774
00:30:25,909 --> 00:30:22,000
with colin doctor who baker

775
00:30:29,110 --> 00:30:25,919
and toya 80s pop legend wilcox

776
00:30:31,269 --> 00:30:29,120
and probably also overly sensational as

777
00:30:33,669 --> 00:30:31,279
opposed to your editor's disappointment

778
00:30:35,990 --> 00:30:33,679
when he went there and found it had been

779
00:30:39,830 --> 00:30:36,000
knocked down decades earlier

780
00:30:41,510 --> 00:30:39,840
so much for research well thank you tim

781
00:30:43,350 --> 00:30:41,520
menden once again for compiling the

782
00:30:45,190 --> 00:30:43,360
australian skeptics newsletter

783
00:30:46,870 --> 00:30:45,200
and you can have that delivered to your

784
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:46,880
inbox every other week

785
00:31:05,110 --> 00:30:51,170
by subscribing at skeptics.com

786
00:31:07,750 --> 00:31:05,120
[Music]

787
00:31:08,710 --> 00:31:07,760
hi this is dr pamela gay from astronomy

788
00:31:10,710 --> 00:31:08,720
cast

789
00:31:12,549 --> 00:31:10,720
each week fraser cain and i take our

790
00:31:14,070 --> 00:31:12,559
listeners on a fact-based journey

791
00:31:16,470 --> 00:31:14,080
through the cosmos

792
00:31:17,669 --> 00:31:16,480
with our weekly podcast we explain not

793
00:31:20,230 --> 00:31:17,679
just what we know

794
00:31:22,149 --> 00:31:20,240
but how we know what we know about this

795
00:31:24,789 --> 00:31:22,159
universe that we share

796
00:31:25,430 --> 00:31:24,799
check us out at astronomycast.com and

797
00:31:27,909 --> 00:31:25,440
look for us

798
00:31:29,669 --> 00:31:27,919
in itunes google play and wherever you

799
00:31:32,490 --> 00:31:29,679
download podcasts

800
00:31:50,470 --> 00:31:32,500
see you online

801
00:31:56,230 --> 00:31:52,230
now let's take another trip into the

802
00:31:57,669 --> 00:31:56,240
pages at trove trove.nla.gov dot a u

803
00:31:59,430 --> 00:31:57,679
the online resource from the australian

804
00:32:00,389 --> 00:31:59,440
government and the national library of

805
00:32:02,549 --> 00:32:00,399
australia

806
00:32:04,870 --> 00:32:02,559
digitized newspapers articles and so on

807
00:32:07,670 --> 00:32:04,880
going back for many many decades into

808
00:32:13,909 --> 00:32:10,149
[Music]

809
00:32:15,029 --> 00:32:13,919
and continuing our theme looking up

810
00:32:17,750 --> 00:32:15,039
psychics

811
00:32:18,310 --> 00:32:17,760
psychic animals last week psychic this

812
00:32:20,789 --> 00:32:18,320
psychic

813
00:32:22,870 --> 00:32:20,799
that we're going to take a closer look

814
00:32:29,430 --> 00:32:22,880
at references to

815
00:32:31,509 --> 00:32:29,440
psychic tests

816
00:32:32,789 --> 00:32:31,519
or at least articles where the word

817
00:32:36,870 --> 00:32:32,799
psychic and the word

818
00:32:38,789 --> 00:32:36,880
test both appear and i guess like me

819
00:32:40,389 --> 00:32:38,799
you may have noticed that the name sir

820
00:32:42,070 --> 00:32:40,399
arthur conan doyle

821
00:32:45,430 --> 00:32:42,080
seems to crop up quite a lot in these

822
00:32:48,630 --> 00:32:45,440
reports and today is no exception

823
00:32:50,149 --> 00:32:48,640
we begin our look this week in the pages

824
00:32:52,070 --> 00:32:50,159
of the journal

825
00:32:56,549 --> 00:32:52,080
which was from adelaide south australia

826
00:33:00,070 --> 00:32:56,559
published on the 9th of july 1923.

827
00:33:02,230 --> 00:33:00,080
psychic lights comedy new york

828
00:33:03,990 --> 00:33:02,240
has been smiling broadly at the results

829
00:33:05,110 --> 00:33:04,000
of an investigation into psychic

830
00:33:07,590 --> 00:33:05,120
phenomena

831
00:33:09,590 --> 00:33:07,600
conducted by the scientific american

832
00:33:09,990 --> 00:33:09,600
which on the occasion of sir arthur

833
00:33:12,549 --> 00:33:10,000
cohen

834
00:33:14,149 --> 00:33:12,559
and doyle's recent lecturing tour

835
00:33:17,350 --> 00:33:14,159
offered prize amounts

836
00:33:20,710 --> 00:33:17,360
to 1 000 pounds to mediums

837
00:33:23,110 --> 00:33:20,720
able to satisfy certain tests

838
00:33:24,230 --> 00:33:23,120
the chief candidate for the prize was

839
00:33:27,190 --> 00:33:24,240
george valentine

840
00:33:28,870 --> 00:33:27,200
of wilkesboro pennsylvania who has

841
00:33:31,509 --> 00:33:28,880
frequently produced the

842
00:33:33,269 --> 00:33:31,519
quote psychic lights and quote described

843
00:33:35,909 --> 00:33:33,279
by sir arthur conan doyle

844
00:33:37,029 --> 00:33:35,919
at the request of the medium tests were

845
00:33:40,310 --> 00:33:37,039
made amid

846
00:33:42,630 --> 00:33:40,320
darkness so intense

847
00:33:44,710 --> 00:33:42,640
that it was impossible for the judges to

848
00:33:47,830 --> 00:33:44,720
even see their own hands

849
00:33:50,950 --> 00:33:47,840
unknown to valentine however the chair

850
00:33:54,789 --> 00:33:50,960
he occupied rested upon an electrical

851
00:33:57,269 --> 00:33:54,799
contrivance which ignited a bulb

852
00:33:58,789 --> 00:33:57,279
in the adjoining room the moment it was

853
00:34:02,549 --> 00:33:58,799
vacated

854
00:34:05,269 --> 00:34:02,559
by means of a dictaphone and a stopwatch

855
00:34:07,350 --> 00:34:05,279
an observer posted there was able to

856
00:34:10,389 --> 00:34:07,360
record the exact time

857
00:34:14,149 --> 00:34:10,399
and the text of every utterance

858
00:34:17,270 --> 00:34:14,159
by the quote spirits end quote evoked by

859
00:34:20,069 --> 00:34:17,280
valentine the record shows that

860
00:34:22,389 --> 00:34:20,079
concealed by darkness valentine vacated

861
00:34:23,349 --> 00:34:22,399
the chair 15 times in the course of the

862
00:34:26,950 --> 00:34:23,359
seance

863
00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:26,960
his chair was always vacant when the

864
00:34:32,389 --> 00:34:30,480
psychic lights appeared

865
00:34:34,310 --> 00:34:32,399
when voices were heard in different

866
00:34:37,030 --> 00:34:34,320
parts of the darkened room

867
00:34:38,710 --> 00:34:37,040
or when those present felt on their

868
00:34:43,589 --> 00:34:38,720
faces and hands

869
00:34:46,950 --> 00:34:43,599
the uncanny touch of ghostly hands

870
00:34:48,869 --> 00:34:46,960
ooh a bit of a giveaway there and that

871
00:34:51,829 --> 00:34:48,879
was in 1923.

872
00:34:53,669 --> 00:34:51,839
hmm and now we turn to the pages of the

873
00:34:55,430 --> 00:34:53,679
australian woman's weekly a very popular

874
00:34:58,310 --> 00:34:55,440
women's magazine in this

875
00:35:00,390 --> 00:34:58,320
country for almost a century this comes

876
00:35:04,550 --> 00:35:00,400
to us from 1979

877
00:35:08,390 --> 00:35:04,560
wednesday the 5th of december 1979

878
00:35:09,910 --> 00:35:08,400
oh yes i remember those times and how

879
00:35:14,230 --> 00:35:09,920
popular things like

880
00:35:15,829 --> 00:35:14,240
esp was probably spurred on by yuri

881
00:35:19,990 --> 00:35:15,839
geller and things like that

882
00:35:23,109 --> 00:35:20,000
it was just the time is your child

883
00:35:25,750 --> 00:35:23,119
psychic do psychic bonds

884
00:35:26,550 --> 00:35:25,760
exist between you and your child a new

885
00:35:29,270 --> 00:35:26,560
book

886
00:35:30,790 --> 00:35:29,280
is your child psychic question mark by

887
00:35:33,430 --> 00:35:30,800
dr alice thanos

888
00:35:35,589 --> 00:35:33,440
and catherine fair donnelly includes a

889
00:35:36,710 --> 00:35:35,599
number of tests you can conduct with

890
00:35:40,310 --> 00:35:36,720
your child

891
00:35:43,109 --> 00:35:40,320
to see if he he

892
00:35:44,550 --> 00:35:43,119
to see if he has telepathic clairvoyance

893
00:35:47,750 --> 00:35:44,560
precognitive

894
00:35:49,349 --> 00:35:47,760
or other psychic abilities i guess if

895
00:35:51,349 --> 00:35:49,359
it's a she you're out of luck i don't

896
00:35:54,390 --> 00:35:51,359
know

897
00:35:56,870 --> 00:35:54,400
sorry i thought i'd interject

898
00:35:57,990 --> 00:35:56,880
the following two tests are taken from

899
00:36:01,430 --> 00:35:58,000
that book

900
00:36:02,950 --> 00:36:01,440
they are for telepathy and each uses a

901
00:36:05,109 --> 00:36:02,960
deck of cards

902
00:36:06,630 --> 00:36:05,119
getting half of the answers right is a

903
00:36:10,829 --> 00:36:06,640
chance response

904
00:36:12,790 --> 00:36:10,839
getting sixty percent or more is beyond

905
00:36:14,950 --> 00:36:12,800
chance

906
00:36:16,950 --> 00:36:14,960
and would be considered a significant

907
00:36:18,870 --> 00:36:16,960
response say the authors

908
00:36:20,790 --> 00:36:18,880
or could just fit within the bell curve

909
00:36:23,910 --> 00:36:20,800
says the skeptics

910
00:36:25,430 --> 00:36:23,920
sorry the test should be played as games

911
00:36:27,349 --> 00:36:25,440
they should not be done all in one

912
00:36:27,670 --> 00:36:27,359
sitting and the child should not be made

913
00:36:32,069 --> 00:36:27,680
to

914
00:36:34,710 --> 00:36:32,079
well on

915
00:36:35,670 --> 00:36:34,720
psychic abilities even when they do

916
00:36:38,790 --> 00:36:35,680
exist

917
00:36:42,710 --> 00:36:38,800
cannot always be summoned at will i

918
00:36:45,670 --> 00:36:42,720
keep interjecting psychic abilities

919
00:36:46,150 --> 00:36:45,680
and then there's a hyphen even when they

920
00:36:51,030 --> 00:36:46,160
do

921
00:36:55,510 --> 00:36:54,150
cannot always be summoned at will apart

922
00:36:57,589 --> 00:36:55,520
from all the psychics i've

923
00:36:59,910 --> 00:36:57,599
met in my life who said they can do

924
00:37:00,710 --> 00:36:59,920
their psychic ability anytime anywhere

925
00:37:02,950 --> 00:37:00,720
and then

926
00:37:04,470 --> 00:37:02,960
can't but that's another story sorry

927
00:37:07,589 --> 00:37:04,480
back to the article

928
00:37:09,750 --> 00:37:07,599
jack and ace test use

929
00:37:10,870 --> 00:37:09,760
only the four jacks and four aces from a

930
00:37:13,190 --> 00:37:10,880
deck of cards

931
00:37:14,230 --> 00:37:13,200
shuffle the eight cards then pick up the

932
00:37:17,190 --> 00:37:14,240
top card

933
00:37:18,150 --> 00:37:17,200
and look at it but don't show it to the

934
00:37:21,670 --> 00:37:18,160
child

935
00:37:24,630 --> 00:37:21,680
being tested say the word

936
00:37:25,349 --> 00:37:24,640
target and concentrate on the card for

937
00:37:28,630 --> 00:37:25,359
about

938
00:37:31,990 --> 00:37:28,640
five seconds the child then says

939
00:37:35,030 --> 00:37:32,000
whether he thinks the card is a jack or

940
00:37:36,069 --> 00:37:35,040
an ace don't tell him whether he was

941
00:37:39,109 --> 00:37:36,079
right or not

942
00:37:41,829 --> 00:37:39,119
but silently marked down whether he did

943
00:37:42,790 --> 00:37:41,839
or did not hit the target when he

944
00:37:45,349 --> 00:37:42,800
announces

945
00:37:46,069 --> 00:37:45,359
ready for the next target now repeat the

946
00:37:48,870 --> 00:37:46,079
procedure

947
00:37:49,510 --> 00:37:48,880
on the next card until the test has been

948
00:37:52,470 --> 00:37:49,520
tried

949
00:37:53,349 --> 00:37:52,480
on all eight cards go through the entire

950
00:37:56,150 --> 00:37:53,359
procedure

951
00:37:57,990 --> 00:37:56,160
two more times each time reshuffling the

952
00:38:01,349 --> 00:37:58,000
four jacks and the four aces

953
00:38:03,349 --> 00:38:01,359
before starting the run anew in three

954
00:38:05,750 --> 00:38:03,359
other separate settings repeat what you

955
00:38:08,069 --> 00:38:05,760
have done in the first sitting

956
00:38:09,270 --> 00:38:08,079
until you have a record of your child's

957
00:38:13,670 --> 00:38:09,280
having tried to read

958
00:38:16,069 --> 00:38:13,680
your mind on a total of 100 cards

959
00:38:18,230 --> 00:38:16,079
finally tally up the score to see how

960
00:38:21,750 --> 00:38:18,240
many of the child's answers

961
00:38:24,470 --> 00:38:21,760
were on target basic red or black

962
00:38:25,990 --> 00:38:24,480
card test this is done the same way as

963
00:38:29,270 --> 00:38:26,000
the previous test

964
00:38:31,990 --> 00:38:29,280
except that you use the entire deck

965
00:38:34,069 --> 00:38:32,000
and the child has only to tell you

966
00:38:34,870 --> 00:38:34,079
whether he believes the card is red or

967
00:38:37,349 --> 00:38:34,880
black

968
00:38:38,790 --> 00:38:37,359
this test should take place in at least

969
00:38:43,030 --> 00:38:38,800
four separate sittings

970
00:38:46,390 --> 00:38:43,040
of 25 cards each i wonder if anyone

971
00:38:49,670 --> 00:38:46,400
tried it way back in 1979

972
00:38:52,950 --> 00:38:49,680
they probably did and next we

973
00:38:54,630 --> 00:38:52,960
find ourselves in the year 1932 the 2nd

974
00:38:57,349 --> 00:38:54,640
of february

975
00:38:59,270 --> 00:38:57,359
and we read from the cessnock eagle and

976
00:39:02,150 --> 00:38:59,280
south maitland recorder

977
00:39:04,069 --> 00:39:02,160
and this is in new south wales psychic

978
00:39:06,230 --> 00:39:04,079
research in australia

979
00:39:08,150 --> 00:39:06,240
the reading public are showing great

980
00:39:10,470 --> 00:39:08,160
interest in the investigations of the

981
00:39:13,670 --> 00:39:10,480
special committee arranged by the

982
00:39:15,990 --> 00:39:13,680
quote sunday sun and quote sydney to

983
00:39:19,109 --> 00:39:16,000
investigate psychic phenomena

984
00:39:22,950 --> 00:39:19,119
the committee comprises two lawyers

985
00:39:26,230 --> 00:39:22,960
a psychologist a psychotherapist

986
00:39:28,150 --> 00:39:26,240
and a wireless expert several seances

987
00:39:31,030 --> 00:39:28,160
have been held in messages received

988
00:39:31,750 --> 00:39:31,040
from people in the astral plane but the

989
00:39:34,069 --> 00:39:31,760
committee

990
00:39:35,190 --> 00:39:34,079
is hampered in its work by not being

991
00:39:37,550 --> 00:39:35,200
able to find

992
00:39:39,270 --> 00:39:37,560
a medium capable of producing

993
00:39:41,829 --> 00:39:39,280
materializations

994
00:39:44,230 --> 00:39:41,839
messages are all very well and

995
00:39:46,150 --> 00:39:44,240
interesting tests can be made

996
00:39:48,230 --> 00:39:46,160
such as getting the spirit to mention

997
00:39:51,270 --> 00:39:48,240
what is being printed

998
00:39:54,310 --> 00:39:51,280
at the moment on a particular line

999
00:39:57,030 --> 00:39:54,320
and page of next morning's paper but

1000
00:39:57,990 --> 00:39:57,040
after all what people are fundamentally

1001
00:40:02,630 --> 00:39:58,000
interested in

1002
00:40:09,829 --> 00:40:07,430
i'll just pause there living ghost forms

1003
00:40:12,069 --> 00:40:09,839
let's read on there is no parallel in

1004
00:40:13,430 --> 00:40:12,079
australia for the exhaustive researches

1005
00:40:15,670 --> 00:40:13,440
of professor

1006
00:40:17,109 --> 00:40:15,680
gelly the greatest authority on

1007
00:40:19,670 --> 00:40:17,119
experiments with

1008
00:40:21,190 --> 00:40:19,680
wax gloves which give the most

1009
00:40:24,950 --> 00:40:21,200
conclusive evidence of

1010
00:40:28,309 --> 00:40:24,960
materialization and those of richard and

1011
00:40:31,190 --> 00:40:28,319
shrink notzig but the sun

1012
00:40:33,430 --> 00:40:31,200
committee hopes to find some good medium

1013
00:40:36,710 --> 00:40:33,440
able to produce these results for the

1014
00:40:39,750 --> 00:40:36,720
finest proof of spiritualistic phenomena

1015
00:40:41,750 --> 00:40:39,760
are obtained with wax gloves and by

1016
00:40:45,510 --> 00:40:41,760
photographing ectoplasmic

1017
00:40:47,109 --> 00:40:45,520
forms at different stages

1018
00:40:50,870 --> 00:40:47,119
there you go there's some good advice

1019
00:40:54,829 --> 00:40:50,880
for us all wax gloves hmm

1020
00:40:58,790 --> 00:40:54,839
now let's go further back in time to

1021
00:41:00,870 --> 00:40:58,800
1909 in the sunday times from sydney on

1022
00:41:02,950 --> 00:41:00,880
the 3rd of january

1023
00:41:05,349 --> 00:41:02,960
and if you're interested that's on page

1024
00:41:07,990 --> 00:41:05,359
3.

1025
00:41:08,470 --> 00:41:08,000
psychic phenomena under test conditions

1026
00:41:10,870 --> 00:41:08,480
live

1027
00:41:11,589 --> 00:41:10,880
bird and nest passed through mosquito

1028
00:41:14,230 --> 00:41:11,599
netting

1029
00:41:15,030 --> 00:41:14,240
more bailly wonders in melbourne the

1030
00:41:18,069 --> 00:41:15,040
second

1031
00:41:21,750 --> 00:41:18,079
occult test seance conducted by mr t

1032
00:41:24,790 --> 00:41:21,760
w stanford melbourne with the medium mr

1033
00:41:27,190 --> 00:41:24,800
chas bailey took place at the private

1034
00:41:29,510 --> 00:41:27,200
office of the former on wednesday night

1035
00:41:31,589 --> 00:41:29,520
they're being present about 25

1036
00:41:32,950 --> 00:41:31,599
investigators including an american

1037
00:41:35,910 --> 00:41:32,960
gentleman

1038
00:41:37,670 --> 00:41:35,920
mr mcleland who is making his second

1039
00:41:39,990 --> 00:41:37,680
tour around the world

1040
00:41:40,790 --> 00:41:40,000
who is making his second tour around the

1041
00:41:43,270 --> 00:41:40,800
world

1042
00:41:45,030 --> 00:41:43,280
having on a previous tour visited egypt

1043
00:41:48,069 --> 00:41:45,040
india and other places

1044
00:41:51,510 --> 00:41:48,079
where he investigated a cult phenomena

1045
00:41:55,430 --> 00:41:51,520
and kindred matters and learned

1046
00:41:58,309 --> 00:41:55,440
much of the subject of spiritualistic

1047
00:41:59,750 --> 00:41:58,319
mysteries this gentleman was one of the

1048
00:42:02,630 --> 00:41:59,760
searchers of the medium

1049
00:42:04,710 --> 00:42:02,640
who entered the mosquito netting cage

1050
00:42:05,750 --> 00:42:04,720
described in my last communication on

1051
00:42:07,510 --> 00:42:05,760
the subject

1052
00:42:08,790 --> 00:42:07,520
he was a member of the committee of

1053
00:42:11,910 --> 00:42:08,800
detection

1054
00:42:12,710 --> 00:42:11,920
for the evening and besides carefully

1055
00:42:16,150 --> 00:42:12,720
searching

1056
00:42:18,630 --> 00:42:16,160
the medium he examined the cage

1057
00:42:20,950 --> 00:42:18,640
and locked the medium within holding

1058
00:42:24,470 --> 00:42:20,960
possession of the key during the hour

1059
00:42:26,870 --> 00:42:24,480
and a half the meeting lasted he

1060
00:42:28,950 --> 00:42:26,880
with others also attached initialized

1061
00:42:30,870 --> 00:42:28,960
stamp edgings on the door

1062
00:42:32,309 --> 00:42:30,880
in such a way that it could not be

1063
00:42:34,790 --> 00:42:32,319
opened without tearing

1064
00:42:36,470 --> 00:42:34,800
the paper that's interesting and i'll

1065
00:42:37,990 --> 00:42:36,480
just say as an aside one year at the

1066
00:42:41,190 --> 00:42:38,000
amazing meeting

1067
00:42:42,950 --> 00:42:41,200
where we had to seal a room we

1068
00:42:45,190 --> 00:42:42,960
taped up the room and wrote our

1069
00:42:49,109 --> 00:42:45,200
signatures across the tape

1070
00:42:51,270 --> 00:42:49,119
which was uh an interesting experiment

1071
00:42:53,430 --> 00:42:51,280
at the conclusion of the meeting he and

1072
00:42:56,230 --> 00:42:53,440
his colleagues pronounced the papers

1073
00:42:57,829 --> 00:42:56,240
to be intact and the cage perfectly

1074
00:43:00,550 --> 00:42:57,839
sounded every point

1075
00:43:01,030 --> 00:43:00,560
these preliminary facts are important

1076
00:43:03,190 --> 00:43:01,040
and

1077
00:43:04,790 --> 00:43:03,200
furthermore are stated with perfect

1078
00:43:07,030 --> 00:43:04,800
fidelity to truth

1079
00:43:08,150 --> 00:43:07,040
the first article passed through into

1080
00:43:10,710 --> 00:43:08,160
the cage

1081
00:43:11,589 --> 00:43:10,720
was a lump of clay with spearheads

1082
00:43:14,870 --> 00:43:11,599
buried in it

1083
00:43:18,470 --> 00:43:14,880
said to have come from central america

1084
00:43:20,150 --> 00:43:18,480
this quote a port and quote was about

1085
00:43:23,030 --> 00:43:20,160
the size of a

1086
00:43:25,349 --> 00:43:23,040
breakfast cup the next article brought

1087
00:43:27,750 --> 00:43:25,359
was an old parchment manuscript

1088
00:43:29,030 --> 00:43:27,760
said to have come from egypt a little

1089
00:43:31,349 --> 00:43:29,040
later on

1090
00:43:33,589 --> 00:43:31,359
the hindu control said it had been

1091
00:43:36,150 --> 00:43:33,599
promised that articles similar to those

1092
00:43:38,630 --> 00:43:36,160
which had been brought from time to time

1093
00:43:40,950 --> 00:43:38,640
before the cage had been introduced

1094
00:43:41,670 --> 00:43:40,960
would be produced under the new

1095
00:43:44,150 --> 00:43:41,680
conditions

1096
00:43:45,430 --> 00:43:44,160
in order to prove that the phenomena

1097
00:43:48,309 --> 00:43:45,440
could take place

1098
00:43:48,790 --> 00:43:48,319
under the most strict conditions as well

1099
00:43:50,870 --> 00:43:48,800
and

1100
00:43:52,790 --> 00:43:50,880
while the medium was sitting at the

1101
00:43:55,430 --> 00:43:52,800
table it had been said

1102
00:43:57,430 --> 00:43:55,440
the control pointed out that while at

1103
00:44:00,790 --> 00:43:57,440
the table the medium had had

1104
00:44:03,829 --> 00:44:00,800
articles passed to him in the dark

1105
00:44:05,430 --> 00:44:03,839
by some female sitter acting in

1106
00:44:07,829 --> 00:44:05,440
collusion with him

1107
00:44:08,470 --> 00:44:07,839
the present test series had been decided

1108
00:44:10,470 --> 00:44:08,480
upon

1109
00:44:11,750 --> 00:44:10,480
in order to provide an answer to the

1110
00:44:14,870 --> 00:44:11,760
people who took

1111
00:44:16,870 --> 00:44:14,880
this view of the occurrences after

1112
00:44:17,670 --> 00:44:16,880
making a statement to the foregoing

1113
00:44:20,150 --> 00:44:17,680
effect

1114
00:44:20,870 --> 00:44:20,160
the control announced that the medium

1115
00:44:23,270 --> 00:44:20,880
had

1116
00:44:25,109 --> 00:44:23,280
been searched before entering the cage

1117
00:44:28,390 --> 00:44:25,119
by four of the sitters

1118
00:44:29,190 --> 00:44:28,400
and even if he had been able to conceal

1119
00:44:32,150 --> 00:44:29,200
about him

1120
00:44:33,430 --> 00:44:32,160
a live bird which of course was

1121
00:44:35,750 --> 00:44:33,440
impossible

1122
00:44:38,150 --> 00:44:35,760
it would have been smothered during the

1123
00:44:40,710 --> 00:44:38,160
interval of one hour that had elapsed

1124
00:44:42,630 --> 00:44:40,720
since the medium had entered the cage

1125
00:44:44,470 --> 00:44:42,640
the light was then placed in the box

1126
00:44:46,790 --> 00:44:44,480
provided for that purpose

1127
00:44:48,390 --> 00:44:46,800
when it is required that the light shall

1128
00:44:50,870 --> 00:44:48,400
be excluded for

1129
00:44:52,790 --> 00:44:50,880
about two minutes the room was in

1130
00:44:55,589 --> 00:44:52,800
complete darkness

1131
00:44:56,950 --> 00:44:55,599
at the end of that time the lamp was

1132
00:44:58,710 --> 00:44:56,960
taken from the box

1133
00:45:01,589 --> 00:44:58,720
and the sitter saw in the hand of the

1134
00:45:03,910 --> 00:45:01,599
medium a perfectly formed nest

1135
00:45:05,109 --> 00:45:03,920
with a bird sitting in it being

1136
00:45:07,750 --> 00:45:05,119
apparently

1137
00:45:10,390 --> 00:45:07,760
asleep the control said the creature

1138
00:45:13,829 --> 00:45:10,400
would wake up soon

1139
00:45:15,270 --> 00:45:13,839
and so it did moving about struggling in

1140
00:45:18,870 --> 00:45:15,280
the hands of the medium

1141
00:45:22,230 --> 00:45:18,880
in a vain endeavor to get free

1142
00:45:24,550 --> 00:45:22,240
after the seals and lock were examined

1143
00:45:25,670 --> 00:45:24,560
and found to have been undisturbed the

1144
00:45:28,710 --> 00:45:25,680
door was opened

1145
00:45:30,309 --> 00:45:28,720
so that a cage for the bird might be

1146
00:45:32,870 --> 00:45:30,319
passed into the place

1147
00:45:33,430 --> 00:45:32,880
where the medium sat and the bird and

1148
00:45:36,950 --> 00:45:33,440
the nest

1149
00:45:40,150 --> 00:45:36,960
were taken home later by mr stanford

1150
00:45:41,109 --> 00:45:40,160
and i'll just pause there to say this is

1151
00:45:43,750 --> 00:45:41,119
um

1152
00:45:44,870 --> 00:45:43,760
this is fascinating in so much as it

1153
00:45:47,910 --> 00:45:44,880
describes a

1154
00:45:51,589 --> 00:45:47,920
run-of-the-mill stage

1155
00:45:54,550 --> 00:45:53,030
well i don't want to say run-of-the-mill

1156
00:45:56,710 --> 00:45:54,560
i mean they're all very clever and very

1157
00:45:59,910 --> 00:45:56,720
spectacular but still

1158
00:46:01,270 --> 00:45:59,920
the third seance conducted by mr t w

1159
00:46:03,829 --> 00:46:01,280
stanford melbourne

1160
00:46:05,030 --> 00:46:03,839
with mr bailey as the medium took place

1161
00:46:08,790 --> 00:46:05,040
on wednesday night

1162
00:46:10,950 --> 00:46:08,800
december 30. and the results were as

1163
00:46:13,910 --> 00:46:10,960
mysterious as previously

1164
00:46:14,309 --> 00:46:13,920
the medium was in the cages before the

1165
00:46:16,790 --> 00:46:14,319
door

1166
00:46:19,430 --> 00:46:16,800
being locked with the crevices covered

1167
00:46:22,790 --> 00:46:19,440
with initialed and stamped paper

1168
00:46:25,829 --> 00:46:22,800
the cage has a solid wood floor

1169
00:46:26,870 --> 00:46:25,839
while the roof and sides are of mosquito

1170
00:46:29,190 --> 00:46:26,880
netting

1171
00:46:30,470 --> 00:46:29,200
the thorough examination was made before

1172
00:46:32,950 --> 00:46:30,480
the medium entered

1173
00:46:34,069 --> 00:46:32,960
and the two examiners one a visitor from

1174
00:46:36,550 --> 00:46:34,079
america

1175
00:46:37,589 --> 00:46:36,560
pronounced the enclosure to be intact

1176
00:46:39,510 --> 00:46:37,599
the first article

1177
00:46:42,710 --> 00:46:39,520
landed inside the cage was a lump of

1178
00:46:46,470 --> 00:46:42,720
clay similar to that previously brought

1179
00:46:48,630 --> 00:46:46,480
and it contained spearheads said to have

1180
00:46:49,750 --> 00:46:48,640
belonged to prehistoric times in south

1181
00:46:52,710 --> 00:46:49,760
america

1182
00:46:53,109 --> 00:46:52,720
the second article brought was a fabric

1183
00:46:56,470 --> 00:46:53,119
of

1184
00:46:59,349 --> 00:46:56,480
woven grass said to have served

1185
00:47:00,390 --> 00:46:59,359
as a piece of hanging in front of the

1186
00:47:03,430 --> 00:47:00,400
doorway

1187
00:47:06,470 --> 00:47:03,440
of an indian mosque it was examined

1188
00:47:09,430 --> 00:47:06,480
by an indian control in regard to this

1189
00:47:09,990 --> 00:47:09,440
that whereas silk hangings are used in

1190
00:47:13,030 --> 00:47:10,000
many

1191
00:47:14,870 --> 00:47:13,040
of the rich temples of the cities the

1192
00:47:17,349 --> 00:47:14,880
poorer places of worship

1193
00:47:19,750 --> 00:47:17,359
in the outlying parts were adorned with

1194
00:47:22,309 --> 00:47:19,760
materials made of grass

1195
00:47:23,589 --> 00:47:22,319
this article measured about eight foot

1196
00:47:27,190 --> 00:47:23,599
long

1197
00:47:30,390 --> 00:47:27,200
by about 18 inches wide and would bulk

1198
00:47:33,750 --> 00:47:30,400
about as great as a man's beauford coat

1199
00:47:37,030 --> 00:47:33,760
and could not possibly have escaped

1200
00:47:40,069 --> 00:47:37,040
observation by the searchers had it

1201
00:47:41,030 --> 00:47:40,079
been concealed about the person of the

1202
00:47:43,750 --> 00:47:41,040
medium

1203
00:47:45,910 --> 00:47:43,760
in addition to bringing these articles

1204
00:47:47,430 --> 00:47:45,920
the various controls offered a very

1205
00:47:51,030 --> 00:47:47,440
eloquent prayer

1206
00:47:51,990 --> 00:47:51,040
sung hymns and delivered an able address

1207
00:47:55,349 --> 00:47:52,000
based upon

1208
00:47:57,990 --> 00:47:55,359
the earthquake catastrophe in sicily

1209
00:47:59,990 --> 00:47:58,000
melbourne representative of the sunday

1210
00:48:03,910 --> 00:48:00,000
times

1211
00:48:05,589 --> 00:48:03,920
and once again it seems to me

1212
00:48:08,309 --> 00:48:05,599
that that was a very good and

1213
00:48:12,309 --> 00:48:08,319
interesting act of the time

1214
00:48:15,670 --> 00:48:12,319
posing as paranormal ability

1215
00:48:17,109 --> 00:48:15,680
and finally we find an article that asks

1216
00:48:19,829 --> 00:48:17,119
the big question

1217
00:48:22,470 --> 00:48:19,839
are you psychic and this was published

1218
00:48:26,069 --> 00:48:22,480
in the gippsland times in victoria

1219
00:48:28,470 --> 00:48:26,079
on the 26th of august 1950.

1220
00:48:30,069 --> 00:48:28,480
are you psychic until recently

1221
00:48:32,950 --> 00:48:30,079
scientists have done

1222
00:48:34,549 --> 00:48:32,960
nothing but scoff at people who claim to

1223
00:48:36,950 --> 00:48:34,559
have psychic powers

1224
00:48:38,230 --> 00:48:36,960
but now they are discovering that one

1225
00:48:41,670 --> 00:48:38,240
person in five

1226
00:48:45,109 --> 00:48:41,680
has some degree of second sight

1227
00:48:46,549 --> 00:48:45,119
stories of prophecy mind reading and the

1228
00:48:49,910 --> 00:48:46,559
ability to

1229
00:48:51,109 --> 00:48:49,920
see through walls or across thousands of

1230
00:48:54,470 --> 00:48:51,119
miles of space

1231
00:48:57,030 --> 00:48:54,480
are no longer dismissed as idle gossip

1232
00:48:59,270 --> 00:48:57,040
they are eagerly sought after by

1233
00:49:02,790 --> 00:48:59,280
serious-minded researchers

1234
00:49:05,990 --> 00:49:02,800
experts at half a dozen u.s universities

1235
00:49:08,549 --> 00:49:06,000
and scientists at oxford and cambridge

1236
00:49:09,670 --> 00:49:08,559
they are clues to yet another psychic

1237
00:49:12,870 --> 00:49:09,680
and science

1238
00:49:16,069 --> 00:49:12,880
wants to know all about them

1239
00:49:18,950 --> 00:49:16,079
last month a young woman sat at a desk

1240
00:49:21,349 --> 00:49:18,960
in a psychic research office in new york

1241
00:49:24,549 --> 00:49:21,359
looking at a magazine advertisement

1242
00:49:27,589 --> 00:49:24,559
she leaned back clicked a stopwatch

1243
00:49:31,829 --> 00:49:27,599
and noted the time at that moment

1244
00:49:34,390 --> 00:49:31,839
3 000 miles away in london another woman

1245
00:49:36,230 --> 00:49:34,400
turned to a group of scientists who were

1246
00:49:40,470 --> 00:49:36,240
watching her intently

1247
00:49:42,870 --> 00:49:40,480
and said quote a small pony

1248
00:49:44,390 --> 00:49:42,880
the advertisement the young woman in new

1249
00:49:48,710 --> 00:49:44,400
york was looking at was

1250
00:49:51,750 --> 00:49:48,720
designed around a drawing of a pony

1251
00:49:53,829 --> 00:49:51,760
pioneer work experiments like this to

1252
00:49:54,870 --> 00:49:53,839
probe the unknown world of mental

1253
00:49:57,270 --> 00:49:54,880
telepathy

1254
00:49:58,309 --> 00:49:57,280
and other twilight powers of the mind

1255
00:50:01,270 --> 00:49:58,319
are taking place

1256
00:50:02,470 --> 00:50:01,280
every day and now after 20 years of

1257
00:50:06,069 --> 00:50:02,480
pioneer work

1258
00:50:08,470 --> 00:50:06,079
by a few scientists research into extra

1259
00:50:10,790 --> 00:50:08,480
sensory perception points to a

1260
00:50:12,230 --> 00:50:10,800
remarkable conclusion

1261
00:50:15,190 --> 00:50:12,240
i'll just pause there to say that's

1262
00:50:18,790 --> 00:50:15,200
interesting 1950 and they used the term

1263
00:50:22,390 --> 00:50:18,800
extra sensory perception esp

1264
00:50:26,230 --> 00:50:22,400
i wonder when that term was first used

1265
00:50:29,270 --> 00:50:26,240
it's certainly not used now we read on

1266
00:50:31,390 --> 00:50:29,280
some people as many as one in five

1267
00:50:33,030 --> 00:50:31,400
have an additional sense that works

1268
00:50:36,470 --> 00:50:33,040
spasmodically

1269
00:50:39,030 --> 00:50:36,480
in their subconscious it is this sense

1270
00:50:41,510 --> 00:50:39,040
that enables them to foretell a future

1271
00:50:45,589 --> 00:50:41,520
event read another person's mind

1272
00:50:48,630 --> 00:50:45,599
no matter how far away and see

1273
00:50:51,109 --> 00:50:48,640
through walls doors and other visual

1274
00:50:51,990 --> 00:50:51,119
barriers but this does not mean that

1275
00:50:55,829 --> 00:50:52,000
every story

1276
00:50:58,950 --> 00:50:55,839
aunt millie tells about her premonitions

1277
00:51:02,470 --> 00:50:58,960
is a true example of psychic power

1278
00:51:05,750 --> 00:51:02,480
many claims false

1279
00:51:09,430 --> 00:51:05,760
america's psychical research society has

1280
00:51:12,630 --> 00:51:09,440
found that 98 of claims to

1281
00:51:13,430 --> 00:51:12,640
psychic powers are false this huge

1282
00:51:16,390 --> 00:51:13,440
proportion

1283
00:51:18,630 --> 00:51:16,400
of inaccuracy and imagination in trying

1284
00:51:19,109 --> 00:51:18,640
to track down real examples of second

1285
00:51:21,589 --> 00:51:19,119
sight

1286
00:51:22,230 --> 00:51:21,599
is the greatest single problem facing

1287
00:51:25,430 --> 00:51:22,240
psychic

1288
00:51:25,910 --> 00:51:25,440
research scientists but every now and

1289
00:51:28,230 --> 00:51:25,920
then

1290
00:51:30,549 --> 00:51:28,240
they come across a story that does

1291
00:51:33,270 --> 00:51:30,559
suggest a psychic element

1292
00:51:34,950 --> 00:51:33,280
here is a typical one a three-year-old

1293
00:51:36,790 --> 00:51:34,960
boy named billy

1294
00:51:38,549 --> 00:51:36,800
was playing on the floor at home with

1295
00:51:41,589 --> 00:51:38,559
his parents one afternoon

1296
00:51:43,430 --> 00:51:41,599
when he suddenly stopped and walked

1297
00:51:46,069 --> 00:51:43,440
towards the window

1298
00:51:47,349 --> 00:51:46,079
he wasn't tall enough to see out of it

1299
00:51:51,030 --> 00:51:47,359
but he said

1300
00:51:54,470 --> 00:51:51,040
sadly aunt helen isn't coming

1301
00:51:57,349 --> 00:51:54,480
the time was 2 30 p.m billy's father was

1302
00:52:00,150 --> 00:51:57,359
about to tune into a wireless program

1303
00:52:01,430 --> 00:52:00,160
and he could vouch for the exact time of

1304
00:52:03,510 --> 00:52:01,440
billy's remark

1305
00:52:04,710 --> 00:52:03,520
billy's parents laughed at him because

1306
00:52:08,630 --> 00:52:04,720
as far as they knew

1307
00:52:09,589 --> 00:52:08,640
his aunt helen was in her home 100 miles

1308
00:52:11,589 --> 00:52:09,599
away

1309
00:52:13,589 --> 00:52:11,599
they hadn't seen or mentioned her for

1310
00:52:17,670 --> 00:52:13,599
months and they were not

1311
00:52:19,990 --> 00:52:17,680
expecting her to call psychic ability

1312
00:52:20,950 --> 00:52:20,000
the next day aunt helen telephoned to

1313
00:52:24,230 --> 00:52:20,960
say

1314
00:52:26,870 --> 00:52:24,240
that she'd been driving past the house

1315
00:52:27,589 --> 00:52:26,880
the day before on her way to another

1316
00:52:30,069 --> 00:52:27,599
town

1317
00:52:30,710 --> 00:52:30,079
she had meant to come in on a surprise

1318
00:52:32,309 --> 00:52:30,720
visit

1319
00:52:35,190 --> 00:52:32,319
but she'd looked at her watch and

1320
00:52:38,790 --> 00:52:35,200
decided she did not have time to stop

1321
00:52:40,870 --> 00:52:38,800
it had been 2 30 when she drove past

1322
00:52:42,950 --> 00:52:40,880
in a case like this psychic research

1323
00:52:45,030 --> 00:52:42,960
scientists prepare a special set of

1324
00:52:47,670 --> 00:52:45,040
questions for the people involved

1325
00:52:48,710 --> 00:52:47,680
if the full facts as related by several

1326
00:52:51,750 --> 00:52:48,720
people relevant

1327
00:52:52,710 --> 00:52:51,760
to the story could not have been

1328
00:52:55,430 --> 00:52:52,720
coincidence

1329
00:52:57,109 --> 00:52:55,440
mistake or imagination they make further

1330
00:53:00,150 --> 00:52:57,119
tests on the person

1331
00:53:02,309 --> 00:53:00,160
with the apparent psychic ability

1332
00:53:05,430 --> 00:53:02,319
the scientific checks are mainly carried

1333
00:53:09,030 --> 00:53:05,440
out with a pack of special cards called

1334
00:53:13,190 --> 00:53:09,040
esp extra sensory

1335
00:53:15,990 --> 00:53:13,200
perception cards card test

1336
00:53:17,030 --> 00:53:16,000
esp cards have 25 in the pack five

1337
00:53:20,230 --> 00:53:17,040
showing a circle

1338
00:53:22,710 --> 00:53:20,240
five showing a star and so on

1339
00:53:23,750 --> 00:53:22,720
the psychic person sits on the far side

1340
00:53:26,790 --> 00:53:23,760
of a room

1341
00:53:30,630 --> 00:53:26,800
hidden from the man conducting the test

1342
00:53:31,349 --> 00:53:30,640
by a screen in a simple mental telepathy

1343
00:53:33,510 --> 00:53:31,359
test

1344
00:53:36,309 --> 00:53:33,520
the psychic subject is asked to name the

1345
00:53:39,190 --> 00:53:36,319
cards the experimenter is thinking about

1346
00:53:40,829 --> 00:53:39,200
to test ability to visualize an object

1347
00:53:43,510 --> 00:53:40,839
at a distance

1348
00:53:45,670 --> 00:53:43,520
clairvoyance the experimenter might ask

1349
00:53:46,870 --> 00:53:45,680
the subject to name order of cards in a

1350
00:53:49,750 --> 00:53:46,880
blank envelope

1351
00:53:51,109 --> 00:53:49,760
to test ability to foretell the future

1352
00:53:53,670 --> 00:53:51,119
precognition

1353
00:53:54,470 --> 00:53:53,680
the subject would have to state the

1354
00:53:56,309 --> 00:53:54,480
order

1355
00:53:59,430 --> 00:53:56,319
of the cards after they had been

1356
00:54:01,990 --> 00:53:59,440
shuffled the cards would be shuffled

1357
00:54:03,430 --> 00:54:02,000
mechanically the packs changed

1358
00:54:05,510 --> 00:54:03,440
frequently

1359
00:54:06,790 --> 00:54:05,520
thousands of subjects have been tested

1360
00:54:09,349 --> 00:54:06,800
in this way

1361
00:54:10,470 --> 00:54:09,359
and to cancel out the possibility of

1362
00:54:12,470 --> 00:54:10,480
guesswork

1363
00:54:13,990 --> 00:54:12,480
some subjects have been tested over

1364
00:54:16,870 --> 00:54:14,000
periods of days

1365
00:54:18,710 --> 00:54:16,880
even weeks there are always certain

1366
00:54:21,349 --> 00:54:18,720
people who score higher

1367
00:54:22,950 --> 00:54:21,359
than mathematical chance allows this

1368
00:54:27,030 --> 00:54:22,960
means that psychic power

1369
00:54:29,510 --> 00:54:27,040
really exists what is it

1370
00:54:31,670 --> 00:54:29,520
some critics maintain that the scores

1371
00:54:34,950 --> 00:54:31,680
achieved in these tests

1372
00:54:37,750 --> 00:54:34,960
are no better than mathematical flukes

1373
00:54:40,309 --> 00:54:37,760
might produce but the us institute of

1374
00:54:42,630 --> 00:54:40,319
mathematical statistics has analyzed the

1375
00:54:44,390 --> 00:54:42,640
results of several research men

1376
00:54:46,069 --> 00:54:44,400
and has fully approved of their

1377
00:54:49,430 --> 00:54:46,079
precautions against

1378
00:54:50,789 --> 00:54:49,440
coincidence giving an apparently psychic

1379
00:54:53,190 --> 00:54:50,799
result

1380
00:54:54,870 --> 00:54:53,200
the psychic research scientists make no

1381
00:54:57,750 --> 00:54:54,880
claims about their work

1382
00:55:00,549 --> 00:54:57,760
merely emphasize a great deal more

1383
00:55:02,549 --> 00:55:00,559
research is necessary

1384
00:55:05,270 --> 00:55:02,559
although many more scientists are

1385
00:55:07,990 --> 00:55:05,280
becoming interested in psychic research

1386
00:55:10,549 --> 00:55:08,000
none is prepared to state what this

1387
00:55:12,870 --> 00:55:10,559
uncanny power really is

1388
00:55:14,390 --> 00:55:12,880
some think it might be remnants of a

1389
00:55:16,950 --> 00:55:14,400
primitive sense that

1390
00:55:18,069 --> 00:55:16,960
operated among men before they could

1391
00:55:21,750 --> 00:55:18,079
speak

1392
00:55:23,910 --> 00:55:21,760
biologist julian huxley thinks it may be

1393
00:55:26,549 --> 00:55:23,920
a new human capacity still

1394
00:55:28,069 --> 00:55:26,559
in its earliest stage of development and

1395
00:55:30,710 --> 00:55:28,079
evolution

1396
00:55:32,549 --> 00:55:30,720
all psychic research scientists agree

1397
00:55:34,950 --> 00:55:32,559
that the power is a strange mental

1398
00:55:38,630 --> 00:55:34,960
combination of the flow of time

1399
00:55:41,349 --> 00:55:38,640
and the concepts of the physical world

1400
00:55:42,069 --> 00:55:41,359
most psychic exchanges occur between

1401
00:55:44,549 --> 00:55:42,079
people

1402
00:55:49,030 --> 00:55:44,559
who are close friends or members of the

1403
00:55:52,390 --> 00:55:49,040
same family

1404
00:55:54,630 --> 00:55:52,400
and there we'll wrap it up for this week

1405
00:55:55,589 --> 00:55:54,640
looking into the trove reports for

1406
00:56:00,309 --> 00:55:55,599
psychic

1407
00:56:03,910 --> 00:56:02,710
and i think i've mentioned before there

1408
00:56:06,309 --> 00:56:03,920
are

1409
00:56:07,910 --> 00:56:06,319
many reports through the years of

1410
00:56:10,069 --> 00:56:07,920
so-called psychic tests or

1411
00:56:11,270 --> 00:56:10,079
demonstrations and i just wish i could

1412
00:56:14,309 --> 00:56:11,280
have been there

1413
00:56:17,510 --> 00:56:14,319
i really do maybe with

1414
00:56:20,309 --> 00:56:17,520
some of my magician friends birds

1415
00:56:23,589 --> 00:56:20,319
appearing through mosquito nets

1416
00:56:25,990 --> 00:56:23,599
and nests as well

1417
00:56:27,990 --> 00:56:26,000
what a great use for psychic ability or

1418
00:56:29,829 --> 00:56:28,000
paranormal powers

1419
00:56:32,309 --> 00:56:29,839
next week on trove we'll be looking at

1420
00:56:35,510 --> 00:56:32,319
another angle

1421
00:56:44,470 --> 00:56:35,520
another reference another avenue

1422
00:56:46,069 --> 00:56:44,480
into the world of the paranormal

1423
00:56:48,309 --> 00:56:46,079
and you can discover all that and much

1424
00:56:52,470 --> 00:56:48,319
more by visiting trove

1425
00:56:58,480 --> 00:56:52,480
at trove.nla.gov dot a u

1426
00:57:16,230 --> 00:56:58,490
and you'll never know what you'll find

1427
00:57:19,910 --> 00:57:17,670
thank you for listening to the skeptics

1428
00:57:21,190 --> 00:57:19,920
and podcast coming up on next week's

1429
00:57:24,870 --> 00:57:21,200
show in the trove

1430
00:57:26,309 --> 00:57:24,880
segment we look at uh psychics and

1431
00:57:30,870 --> 00:57:26,319
police

1432
00:57:32,510 --> 00:57:30,880
people who continue to support the

1433
00:57:36,549 --> 00:57:32,520
skeptic zone at

1434
00:57:39,030 --> 00:57:36,559
skepticzone.tv via paypal or patreon

1435
00:57:40,069 --> 00:57:39,040
and sort of like last year at the moment

1436
00:57:42,470 --> 00:57:40,079
since all my other

1437
00:57:44,549 --> 00:57:42,480
sources of income have stopped owing to

1438
00:57:47,109 --> 00:57:44,559
the pandemic i can't do the

1439
00:57:48,470 --> 00:57:47,119
live science show i normally do i can't

1440
00:57:50,789 --> 00:57:48,480
do my uh

1441
00:57:52,789 --> 00:57:50,799
acting and other work that i normally do

1442
00:57:55,190 --> 00:57:52,799
i've lost some other work doing video

1443
00:57:58,789 --> 00:57:55,200
production and oreo production

1444
00:58:00,789 --> 00:57:58,799
all gone so i am very grateful

1445
00:58:03,589 --> 00:58:00,799
you can imagine to those people who

1446
00:58:05,829 --> 00:58:03,599
continue to support the skeptic zone

1447
00:58:06,789 --> 00:58:05,839
and if you've never done it why not give

1448
00:58:09,190 --> 00:58:06,799
it a try

1449
00:58:11,109 --> 00:58:09,200
what have you got to lose well you know

1450
00:58:11,910 --> 00:58:11,119
a little bit of money each week hardly

1451
00:58:14,069 --> 00:58:11,920
anything

1452
00:58:16,309 --> 00:58:14,079
you can chip in for as little as five

1453
00:58:20,069 --> 00:58:16,319
dollars a month

1454
00:58:21,910 --> 00:58:20,079
the united states

1455
00:58:23,510 --> 00:58:21,920
by the time the money conversion happens

1456
00:58:26,309 --> 00:58:23,520
that equates to about

1457
00:58:28,549 --> 00:58:26,319
eight or nine dollars here in australia

1458
00:58:31,030 --> 00:58:28,559
and that helps very much

1459
00:58:32,950 --> 00:58:31,040
well i certainly hope by the time next

1460
00:58:34,470 --> 00:58:32,960
week's show comes around i can tell a

1461
00:58:37,349 --> 00:58:34,480
happier story from

1462
00:58:39,990 --> 00:58:37,359
sydney australia and melbourne about the

1463
00:58:43,030 --> 00:58:40,000
uh the covenant numbers

1464
00:58:45,990 --> 00:58:43,040
but we don't know because as we

1465
00:58:48,150 --> 00:58:46,000
have discovered a long time ago you

1466
00:58:50,950 --> 00:58:48,160
cannot see the future

1467
00:58:53,190 --> 00:58:50,960
not in this case anyway until then until

1468
00:58:59,750 --> 00:58:53,200
next week this is richard saunders

1469
00:59:02,950 --> 00:59:01,510
you've been listening to the skeptic

1470
00:59:06,190 --> 00:59:02,960
zone podcast

1471
00:59:07,510 --> 00:59:06,200
please visit our website at

1472
00:59:10,630 --> 00:59:07,520
www.skepticzone.tv

1473
00:59:12,630 --> 00:59:10,640
for show notes contacts and to access

1474
00:59:16,150 --> 00:59:12,640
the back catalog of episodes

1475
00:59:18,230 --> 00:59:16,160
going back to 2008. you can follow the

1476
00:59:21,670 --> 00:59:18,240
skepticzone podcast on twitter

1477
00:59:25,190 --> 00:59:21,680
at skepticzone visit our facebook page

1478
00:59:26,630 --> 00:59:25,200
or leave a review on itunes you can also

1479
00:59:29,829 --> 00:59:26,640
support the skeptic zone

1480
00:59:30,549 --> 00:59:29,839
via patreon or paypal the skeptic zone

1481
00:59:33,510 --> 00:59:30,559
podcast

1482
00:59:35,270 --> 00:59:33,520
is an independent production the views

1483
00:59:35,670 --> 00:59:35,280
and opinions expressed on the skeptic

1484
00:59:37,670 --> 00:59:35,680
zone

1485
00:59:39,589 --> 00:59:37,680
are not necessarily those of australian

1486
00:59:52,630 --> 00:59:39,599
skeptics or any other

1487
00:59:55,589 --> 00:59:54,309
yes it's the nice game folks it's the

1488
00:59:57,270 --> 00:59:55,599
easter egg at the end of the skeptic

1489
01:00:00,549 --> 00:59:57,280
zone i have a six-sided

1490
01:00:02,390 --> 01:00:00,559
round die here from kelly burke she sent

1491
01:00:04,390 --> 01:00:02,400
that to me can you believe it

1492
01:00:06,870 --> 01:00:04,400
and together with a bag of other really

1493
01:00:09,190 --> 01:00:06,880
weird straight look at this one

1494
01:00:10,470 --> 01:00:09,200
strange-sided four-sided dice this is

1495
01:00:12,069 --> 01:00:10,480
the part of the show folks if you don't

1496
01:00:13,030 --> 01:00:12,079
know where i roll or die in this

1497
01:00:15,910 --> 01:00:13,040
situation

1498
01:00:16,950 --> 01:00:15,920
and you use your psychic powers at home

1499
01:00:19,750 --> 01:00:16,960
to guess

1500
01:00:20,150 --> 01:00:19,760
or divine what number's coming up so i'm

1501
01:00:22,710 --> 01:00:20,160
going to

1502
01:00:24,150 --> 01:00:22,720
roll this one there it is it's got a

1503
01:00:27,270 --> 01:00:24,160
rattle in it

1504
01:00:29,510 --> 01:00:27,280
and let's see if anybody can guess the

1505
01:00:31,349 --> 01:00:29,520
number what do i hear what do i hear

1506
01:00:33,270 --> 01:00:31,359
oh i'm not going to predict it i'm going

1507
01:00:37,270 --> 01:00:33,280
to make it five happen richard

1508
01:00:39,270 --> 01:00:37,280
fine telekinesis telekinesis

1509
01:00:40,789 --> 01:00:39,280
i'm seeing threes fours people holding

1510
01:00:43,829 --> 01:00:40,799
up their fingers

1511
01:00:46,309 --> 01:00:43,839
ben radford says three car polished

1512
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:46,319
one and i've got my dice rolling machine

1513
01:00:49,270 --> 01:00:47,610
here here it comes

1514
01:00:53,030 --> 01:00:49,280
[Music]

1515
01:00:55,910 --> 01:00:53,040
six congratulations

1516
01:00:57,190 --> 01:00:55,920
six first number six second roll what do

1517
01:01:00,309 --> 01:00:57,200
we have

1518
01:01:01,030 --> 01:01:00,319
it's gonna explode it's gonna explode i

1519
01:01:03,030 --> 01:01:01,040
gotta roll i

1520
01:01:04,950 --> 01:01:03,040
forgot to write it down six there we go

1521
01:01:06,180 --> 01:01:04,960
and the next here comes the next one

1522
01:01:08,230 --> 01:01:06,190
you'd be really impressed

1523
01:01:10,069 --> 01:01:08,240
[Music]

1524
01:01:12,789 --> 01:01:10,079
and it's rolling and it's settling on

1525
01:01:18,470 --> 01:01:16,150
four rigged again poor susan

1526
01:01:19,349 --> 01:01:18,480
see that dice thing last number coming

1527
01:01:23,670 --> 01:01:19,359
up

1528
01:01:25,589 --> 01:01:23,680
and

1529
01:01:26,420 --> 01:01:25,599
susan says five we got lots of numbers

1530
01:01:32,950 --> 01:01:26,430
and it is